Rhemes,
God reveals His will through others and situations in our lives. I was talking about the request from the Archdiocese as God speaking to Michael Voris. Are you under the impression that we are made aware of His will for us only through some private revelation or inspiration? He doesn't have to pray about it (technically) if his superiors make a legitimate request. That should go without saying. The difference of opinion we have is in whether M. Voris owes any allegiance to the Archdiocese of Detroit. I've only read snippets, so I can't say that I'm fully informed on that.

And no, I don't have a personal issue with Voris. I'm actually a fan and I don't want to see him discredited where it matters, within the church. The saints never worked outside the church.

I don't understand why my employment example surprises you. Did Caesar Augustus have charge of Joseph's and Mary's soul? They were obedient to him by participating in the census.

Rhemes,
I don't know that he needs to discern anything. That's my point. I believe God has already suggested His will to him, and now Mr. Voris has to make a decision. He can certainly consult his own bishop, but I think it would be more heroic to simply heed the request of the Detroit Archdiocese. If he believes that God speaks through the church then the question is only how much does he believe it. The spirit of his apostolate is being tested through patience and obedience. I hope he passes, unlike some others.

For example, my employer is my superior. When my manager makes a reasonable request of me, it is as if God made that request. It is God's will for me to perform that task. If a manager from a different department makes a request that doesn't interfere with my normal duties, e.g. I don't have to ask permission, that's also God's will for me. It is also prudent, because another manager is likewise a superior though not directly.

The argument that others are using "Catholic" without repercussions is easily defeated with the proverbial "If you saw someone jump off the building..." We are to be better then them, and I hope so is Michael Voris.

HC,
Straw man case closed (I never opened it). As for your insults toward others and me, they can only defile you. Gloria.tv should outright ban you for that vitriol on a supposedly "more catholic" website. I'M OFFICIALLY MAKING THAT REQUEST. If they don't, that means that they value your input more than mine. And that will be that.

Rhemes,
I spoke my opinion and quoted Saints of the Church, for which I'm apparently a "stupid little man" who would give in to a pedophile as an act of virtue. Go figure. I appreciate your effort to have a civil discourse though.

Of course, Michael Voris doesn't have a duty to obey, but he does have an opportunity to exercise heroic obedience and differentiate himself from others, like the Black Sheepdog. We should all strive to be like the saints who suffered tremendously, even at the hands of the church hiararchy. Our salvation is in the cross, because those who live by the sword will perish by it.

Today is the feast of the Holy Family and I just thought I'd tie the lesson to this current event.

Straw man. There's no duty to disobey here. It would actually be quite easy to obey as what is being asked for is neither unreasonable nor immoral.

HC, your vulgarity isn't helping your arguments.

Rhemes, holy obedience doesn't mean obedience only to direct superiors. It means obedience to the will of God and a distaste for one's own will.

Quote me a saint, not a blogger.

"We must put aside all judgment of our own, and keep the mind ever ready and prompt to obey in all things the true Spouse of Christ our Lord, our holy Mother, the hierarchical Church."
--Saint Ignatius of Loyola

”The more we see that any action springs not from the motive of obedience, the more evident is it that it is a temptation of the enemy; for when God sends an inspiration, the very first effect of it is to infuse a spirit of docility.”
--Saint Teresa of Avila, Doctor of the Church

”Obedience is a penance of reason, and, on that account, a sacrifice more acceptable than all corporal penances and mortifications.”
--Saint John of the Cross, Doctor of the Church

whitelilyoftrinity.com/saints_quotes_obedience.html

I must admit I was tempted to post one of those quotes as my own and observe the reaction.

I just wanted to mention (especially today) that the Holy Family was obedient to a tyrant so that God's will would be fulfilled. I hope that Michael Voris (whom I like) will likewise see God's will in what is happening and follows through in a similar fashion.

Whether we agree with the bishops or not, they are legitimate authority. Due to their special office, they are even more so than our employers, presidents, military leaders, and most certainly Roman emperors.

Salvation comes through the cross, not by doing what we think is best. The security of doing God's will is always in obedience and it is obedience that separates the saints from the apostates. Even Christ's obedience looked like a failure, but it saved mankind.

The first commenter (ironically named Use Your Brain) says: "We may not agree with that choice [abortion] but that is what makes America great".

I think he/she actually meant "suck" in place of "great".

Gloria.tv may need to change their mantra "the more catholic the better" soon. Oh wait, it's not capitalized. Nevermind.

Welcome back, holyrope3.

I guess the "polemic" among the faithful at Rorate Caeli just got a bit too real, so they were all told to go to hell as well.


Oh yes, Conan O'Brien may be about to push the envelope on his show. I just thought I'd throw it out there.

Video title is wrong. I believe it should be "15th of December".

Would causing an atheist to have a heart attack be considered mortally sinful.

I don't get what the problem here is. I live in a community where I'm subject to community (HOA) rules also. These are not oppressive government laws and living in such a community is voluntary. Read the rules before buying property there. There may be some negatives, but there are also benefits.

Unless you want statues of the buddha or pagan symbols next door, be careful what you wish for. If you want to evangelize your neighbors, invite them to your home. I really don't like when people provoke a reaction and then cry religious persecution. They will lose in the court of law, because they broke the rules they agreed to live by. I suspect that it wasn't even a religious issue, but a restriction on outdoor statues.

Hmm, is this really a religious issue? Should we care how retailers want to mark what is essentially just an annual shopping frenzy? Is this how Catholics are to celebrate Advent anyway?

When I was growing up in Poland in the 70's, there was no Christmas shopping season as such. Christmas started on Christmas Eve and shopping and preparation was done mostly privately and only by adults. Yes, we didn't live in a capitalist society, but it also reflected our Catholic culture. As far as I know, it's been quite "americanized" now (including the music) and a lot of people aren't happy precisely because they're Catholic.

I'm really not sure why the shopping mayhem of December must necessarily be called Christmas season. I would even propose that it shouldn't be. It is the season of Advent. Frankly, I hate the so-called Christmas music being played starting in November and I hate having to listen to it in the stores too. There, I said it! I stopped listening to FM radio few years ago because of "Christmas music" being shoved down my throat starting the day after Halloween.

I've lived in the U.S. for 30 years and I can understand how Americans may want to preserve what they consider their (protestant) tradition, but I don't consider it an issue of religious tolerance. It's a commercial holiday and it has been a long time since it had anything to do with the birth of Our Saviour. In fact, if they stop calling it Christmas season altogether I'll see it as progress. Bring back real Advent.

Move on, nothing to see here and "bah humbug"! (It's OK, it doesn't mean anything until Christmas Eve anyway)